abortion debate liveblogging
Two opposition amendments requiring fertility clinics to consider the need for a father have been rejected: the bill stands as before, requiring only the consideration of supportive parenting.
The debate now moves on to issue of abortion - here we go. I'll be dipping in and out all evening as work allows.
19.16: Edward Leigh has made the first smear of the evening, calling the pro-choice movement a "multi-million pound industry" of vested interests. That was quick.
And he's just entirely misrepresented the recent statement made by Royal College of Psychiatrists on the subject of mental illness (that's misdirection 12 on Dorries' list, incidentally.)
Now he's talking about the week limit in Europe while managing to avoid mentioning access on demand.
And to close, he claims to speak on behalf of unborn foetuses.
19.40: Claire Curtis-Thomas - pretty coherent and honest for quite a long time but then.. "I can't disagree with the body of evidence" - but, hey, it sounds like she's going to anyway.
Oh, and she would prefer 12 weeks but her argument is apparently based on viability at 20 weeks. Confusing.
19.44: Mark Pritchard - calling for a late-term abortion on prime-time television. Now that's not an attempt to provoke a response based on revulsion, nosirree.
Oh, but he's calling for better sex education and better contraceptive services.
But now he's playing feminist historian. Hmm.. and making claims about women in his constituency that can't be true unless he's paid for some private polling out of his own pocket.
Fuck me - he just repeated the wholly untrue claim about the risk of breast cancer. That's one of the hoariest and most reprehensible lies of the pro-life movement. I can't believe that someone got up in Parliament to repeat it. Disgusting.
19.54: And now more specious arguments based on pain being felt (apparently without any knowledge of the research involved).. then 4D images.. then the kicking of babies in the womb.. more misrepresentation of the risks of mental health problems. These arguments all seem oddly familiar. Why?
They're all from Nadine Dorries' bogus list.
20.00: Holy crap. He just said that aborted babies could have been much needed members of England's cricket team. WTF? That's his closing argument?
20.04: Chris McCafferty - arguing that restriction will likely lead to more pressure for illegal abortions from women acting out of desperation.
"Abortion should be a private decision between a woman and her doctor..."
"Why is it so difficult to give the power to decide to those most directly involved?"
"The best way to reduce the number of abortions is to improve access to contraception and make sex education compulsory in schools."
20.17: Mike Penning, Shadow Health Minister starts to speak in favour of reduction. Echoes support for Cafferty's comments on contraception
Aside: if we're going to see so much cross party support for improved contraceptive services, can we.. uhmm.. have some, please?
Desmond Swayne stands up - and apparently speaks in tongues for a short time. He sits down again.
Penning: "Sex education is dramatically important." Says current provision is useless - that education given to the military is more proactive than that given to children.
20.32: Dawn Primarolo: "It is dangerous to move from personal anecdote to general assertion as the basis for change."
Argues that viability based on evidence has always been the primary basis for discussing the issue of abortion.
Iris Robinson makes spurious claim about Primarolo denying pro-life objections... about five minutes after allowing Anne Widdecombe to speak. Our elected representatives aren't at their most impressive this evening..
20.52: Need to take a break. Hopefully back on later.
21.20: Nadine Dorries is on her feet.
"I am pro-choice."
She'd like the morning-after pill free on demand in every school? This is brand new - and something I don't think she's ever mentioned before. Possibly because it wouldn't go down so well with her evangelical chums.
She's telling the story of the abortion she witnessed when she worked as a nurse twenty-odd years ago (see above argument for not making anecdotes the basis of general principle.)
She mentions the EPICure and Trent studies - then takes the clever debating measure of ignoring them completely.
Dorries isn't convincing anyone - she's become too much of a lightning rod.
She's making an argument on the "right to life" of an unborn foetus based on feeling pain. This is a new argument - it certainly doesn't appear on her list of 20 reaons for 20 weeks.
Nope, she's still just pissing people off.
Hah. She's repeating her much amended claim about abortion after 16 weeks not being performed on the NHS. Complains about the "private industry" surrounding abortion.
Challenged to prove that we're running out of doctors. She can't - what she offers is a misdirection.
Finishes on 4D imaging research and Professor Sunny Anand. Well, we know the problems with that research..
21.40: Dawn Primarolo has just called Nadine Dorries a liar. Sweeeeeeet. "She has asserted many things as fact which are not this evening."
Okay, I'm taking another break. I'll try and make it back for the voting later.
The debate now moves on to issue of abortion - here we go. I'll be dipping in and out all evening as work allows.
19.16: Edward Leigh has made the first smear of the evening, calling the pro-choice movement a "multi-million pound industry" of vested interests. That was quick.
And he's just entirely misrepresented the recent statement made by Royal College of Psychiatrists on the subject of mental illness (that's misdirection 12 on Dorries' list, incidentally.)
Now he's talking about the week limit in Europe while managing to avoid mentioning access on demand.
And to close, he claims to speak on behalf of unborn foetuses.
19.40: Claire Curtis-Thomas - pretty coherent and honest for quite a long time but then.. "I can't disagree with the body of evidence" - but, hey, it sounds like she's going to anyway.
Oh, and she would prefer 12 weeks but her argument is apparently based on viability at 20 weeks. Confusing.
19.44: Mark Pritchard - calling for a late-term abortion on prime-time television. Now that's not an attempt to provoke a response based on revulsion, nosirree.
Oh, but he's calling for better sex education and better contraceptive services.
But now he's playing feminist historian. Hmm.. and making claims about women in his constituency that can't be true unless he's paid for some private polling out of his own pocket.
Fuck me - he just repeated the wholly untrue claim about the risk of breast cancer. That's one of the hoariest and most reprehensible lies of the pro-life movement. I can't believe that someone got up in Parliament to repeat it. Disgusting.
19.54: And now more specious arguments based on pain being felt (apparently without any knowledge of the research involved).. then 4D images.. then the kicking of babies in the womb.. more misrepresentation of the risks of mental health problems. These arguments all seem oddly familiar. Why?
They're all from Nadine Dorries' bogus list.
20.00: Holy crap. He just said that aborted babies could have been much needed members of England's cricket team. WTF? That's his closing argument?
20.04: Chris McCafferty - arguing that restriction will likely lead to more pressure for illegal abortions from women acting out of desperation.
"Abortion should be a private decision between a woman and her doctor..."
"Why is it so difficult to give the power to decide to those most directly involved?"
"The best way to reduce the number of abortions is to improve access to contraception and make sex education compulsory in schools."
20.17: Mike Penning, Shadow Health Minister starts to speak in favour of reduction. Echoes support for Cafferty's comments on contraception
Aside: if we're going to see so much cross party support for improved contraceptive services, can we.. uhmm.. have some, please?
Desmond Swayne stands up - and apparently speaks in tongues for a short time. He sits down again.
Penning: "Sex education is dramatically important." Says current provision is useless - that education given to the military is more proactive than that given to children.
20.32: Dawn Primarolo: "It is dangerous to move from personal anecdote to general assertion as the basis for change."
Argues that viability based on evidence has always been the primary basis for discussing the issue of abortion.
Iris Robinson makes spurious claim about Primarolo denying pro-life objections... about five minutes after allowing Anne Widdecombe to speak. Our elected representatives aren't at their most impressive this evening..
20.52: Need to take a break. Hopefully back on later.
21.20: Nadine Dorries is on her feet.
"I am pro-choice."
She'd like the morning-after pill free on demand in every school? This is brand new - and something I don't think she's ever mentioned before. Possibly because it wouldn't go down so well with her evangelical chums.
She's telling the story of the abortion she witnessed when she worked as a nurse twenty-odd years ago (see above argument for not making anecdotes the basis of general principle.)
She mentions the EPICure and Trent studies - then takes the clever debating measure of ignoring them completely.
Dorries isn't convincing anyone - she's become too much of a lightning rod.
She's making an argument on the "right to life" of an unborn foetus based on feeling pain. This is a new argument - it certainly doesn't appear on her list of 20 reaons for 20 weeks.
Nope, she's still just pissing people off.
Hah. She's repeating her much amended claim about abortion after 16 weeks not being performed on the NHS. Complains about the "private industry" surrounding abortion.
Challenged to prove that we're running out of doctors. She can't - what she offers is a misdirection.
Finishes on 4D imaging research and Professor Sunny Anand. Well, we know the problems with that research..
21.40: Dawn Primarolo has just called Nadine Dorries a liar. Sweeeeeeet. "She has asserted many things as fact which are not this evening."
Okay, I'm taking another break. I'll try and make it back for the voting later.
4 comments:
Great blogging tonight - i've been following you, Jenny Percival & Bloggerheads - excellent stuff! Thanks!
My pleasure. :) Glad to have some company this evening..
Ta for keeping up during the most crucial part. I had to refer to you twice after Nadine piped up and the bullshit started coming thick and fast.
Cheers, fella.
Happy to help. I need to take a look at Hansard later today to double-check some of the most unreliable claims - as I doubt it's the last time we'll hear them presented as fact.
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